Some interesting footage on the German jets, and so many good ideas ruined by lack of brains that you can only wonder what the outcome would have been if there had been someone sensible at the helm. While changing German development would not simply have meant they would have overtaken the Allies, who would have responded rather than just stood-by, slack-jawed in awe (as some historians seem to suggest), it does make you wonder where the race would have gone.

Think of the radar race, where both sides did run much more as equals, but, as radar generally works better for the defender than the aggressor, the British tended to do better than the Germans, although both were very clever with what they did with it.

Anyway, this claims to be particularly rare footage of our friend, the Me 262, and the Arado 234 jet bomber, which was used, but you hardly ever hear mentioned - maybe it worked too well when it did work, and was an embarrasment:

I had a look at your new Me262 footage and found it very good, Apollo. Again, I was very impressed by the barrel of that great big "howitzer" sticking out of the nose. What a weapon! It was years ahead of its time...30mm bore with an unbelievable rate of fire, wow!

The trouble with landing gear for the Arado 234 leaves me nonplused. The used a drogue to slow down the  'landing cradle', but they don't appear to have tried a drogue to slow down the bomber when it was landing on a skid. Maybe they did and it wasn't included on the film.

You go back onto the same track again Apollo, with:

"...so many good ideas ruined by lack of brains that you can only wonder what the outcome would have been if there had been someone sensible at the helm.".

This is a technically meaningless statement when applied to aircraft experimentation. One could say this about any aircraft experimentation. It takes ages and the correction of many faults before the aircraft experimentation is at an end. Indeed, one could say such experimentation is never over until the aircraft is scrapped... modification numbers for aircraft modifications go on into the 100's! If we in the aircraft industry in Canada hadn't suffered from a lack of brains and someone more sensible at the helm, then our CF-100 wouldn;t have been the clunk that it was and the CF-105 would have been a world winner!

It occurs to me to wonder where all these video clips of the Me262 came from and are there any of our own planes?

I think later versions of the Arado 234 employed conventional landing gear.

You really have to wonder when you look at Luftwaffe aircraft sometimes.  The Blohm Und Voss BV141 was regarded as too 'out there' even for Germany despite actually being functional.

If anything, the main problem with Germany was that flush with their early successes, even pre war, they failed to replace key parts of their air force.  Look at how long the Dornier D0-17 and Heinkel 111 soldiered on in service with a woeful defensive armament.  Though of the three tactical bombers, the Ju-88 was an excellent airframe.

I wonder what would have happened if they had never had the engine fire and veer problems with the Heinkel 177 as that was truly ahead of its time.

By the way, the Japanese had a version of the 262 called the Nakajima J9Y but it wasn't as well armed.

Quoted from The Fox

It occurs to me to wonder where all these video clips of the Me262 came from and are there any of our own planes?

That's a good question Fox, it's occurred to me too. I'd guess the video clips were obtained by the Allies from Luftwaffe sites in the closing days of the war. All countries involved in invading Germany had teams of qualified experts going over everything they captured with a fine-tooth comb. The British Army, having invaded the northern part of Germany, cleaned-up in mostly naval matters, whereas the Yanks had the pleasure of cleaning out mostly aeronautical stuff; the Russians had both the aeronautical and naval stuff. I read a book about this a long time ago.

When I worked for AVRoe in Canada nothing was ever done without a team of photographers. Even when on long field trips in rocket testing for aircraft, every single step of the experiments from unloading the trucks to actual firing were thoroughly photographed. When experiments were being carried out on the M.B. ejection seat, they were filmed from every conceivable angle. I expect it was the same in Germany.

Yes JadeFalcon, I can imagine the Arado 234 would eventually have employed conventional landing gear. It just struck me as very odd in the film footage that they used a drogue for a clunky cradle and didn't use one on the aircraft. Anyway, I'm sure a conventional landing gear you mention would be much more desirable.

I can see your point re Germany's "main problem". One wonders about this. Yes, Göring was a proper ding-dong, but he did have good men under him who did eventually get to have some control over what the Luftwaffe obtained. I'm thinking here of the likes of Galland, a man I think who had some sense (see my 'aside' at the bottom). Then of course there was Hanna Reisch (?), no dummy when it came to assessing the quality of aircraft. I think the Allied military successes had a great deal to do with Germany's production problems.

I know very little about Luftwaffe aircraft, in fact the only one I can remember ever seeing was a Me109 that had been shot down and was brought around the schools for show, and a request to by war-savings stamps!. I think the Ju-88 you mention was the dive-bomber known as the "Stuka", (or was that the Ju 87?). Anyway, the "Stuka", what with its uncanny accuracy and screeching siren  attached to its fixed undercarriage, was the one that got all the publicity at the beginning of the war... thereby creating a great fear of it. If I recall correctly, it was a pretty slow machine and a sitting duck for Allied fighters.

An aside: In saying Galland was a man I thought had some sense, reminds me of an occasion at Scapa Floe when I said this to a touring German schoolteacher about Gunther Prien, the man who sank the Royal Oak. The German's reply was, "If he'd had some sense he'd never have been there in the first place!". I bet he'd say the same thing about Galland.

The Ju-87 was the Stuka, the Ju-88 was a twin engined tactical bomber, picture here

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/christophe.arribat/stofju88.jpg

Of the three tactical bombers at the beginning of WWII in German use, the Ju-88 was the most versatile finding use as a bomber, night fighter, anti shipping aircraft and other roles.  The Dornier 17, the so called 'flying pencil', and the Heinkel 111 (If you've ever seen the film Battle of Britain, the Heinkels are in that), were older aircraft.