"The army provided sea transport to and from St Kilda, using ageing LCTs (Landing Craft Tank) based at Marchwood, Southampton Water - a very long distance by sea."
Is it not the case that a trawler - the name escapes me - was in use for a time, and that - also perhaps for a time - the base from which the trawler and LCTs went to St Kilda was at Rhu?
Oh no! Somebody's reading pages while they are being assembled!
I'm afraid St Kilda's one of those pages that started off as an interesting single item (the pic of the gun started it) then the island history was recalled, then the missile radar, then the base, then the Puff Inn, then... then... ... then Operation Hardrock.
If you follow the reference, then the Southampton Water base info is provided by someone who took part in the construction.
I haven't added the info yet, but there is more to come regarding maintenance of the base... fortnightly supply runs in the summer, weather permitting, and made to the military base's own beach ramp, installed for the purpose to allow the landing craft ramps to offload supplies, and load rubbish for disposal.
Crewed by the RCT (Royal Corps of Transport) this beach landing craft made regular supply runs to the garisson on St Kilda. Officially classified as LCL Ardennes with a prow no of L4001. (LCL = Landing Craft Logistics)
I'm not sufficiently sure of the terminology to know if LCL and LCT are equivalent craft in different roles, but the LCL is large enough to transport tanks at sea.
I would have thought that supplies could have been despatched from somewhere closer than Rhu or the Clyde - but a reference or recollection/memory get it a mention.
I don't know if there is anything to scour up online, but I'll keep an eye out now that I'm aware, never know what's still to popup, provided you can wade through all the nature stuff and detailed early religious history of the community, which is well covered elsewhere, and not really our concern.
Incidentally, If anyone is interested, and doesn't try all the Map Links provided, then if you use the People's Map option on the St Kilda page, it will take you to a high resolution aerial view of the islands.
The photo of the radar installation to the south is also wrongly reported by the source, which I've notified, and will be correcting (if not already done by the time anyone reads this).
There certainly was a base in Rhu at (:gma-point lat=56.0164000 lon=-4.7791386 : now a marina) where the pongos ( naval slang for the Army) played at sailors with a landing craft or two. Whether they supplied St. Kilda or not I do not know nor do I recall any other Army marine bases. I cannot recall what the unit was called. Frankly in those days anyone with Admiralty connections regarded it as a bit of a joke and consequently paid it little attention.
LCLs and LCTs: I think that the LCLs (?3 in number) were converted LCTs, with a normal ship's bow added in front of the ramp to make the ship slightly more seaworthy. Like the Army RPLs (Ramped Powered Lighters) they probably also had accommodation for the crew, which was not usual in an LCT, but this is a point of which I did not take notice when I had the chance. The base at Rhu was operated by the Royal Corps of Transport (whenever it came into existence).
Undoubtedly there were places closer to St Kilda than Rhu, but presumably the relatively small quantity of supplies could be adequately provided from there (on a fortnightly basis) without setting up a logistics depot any closer.
Sorry to have to make so many guesses and unsubstantiated statements, but most of my relevant library went into the Hampshire Naval Collection at Gosport, before I moved back to Scotland four years ago.
Looking at the beach, it's clear why they used the area, but there's nothing (as you no doubt already know) in the usual places) to identify it. Possibly a trawl though Combined Ops info would yield something.
What's on the shore there now, do you happen to know what the building is there? From what I can see, it just looks like a shelter.
Afraid St Kilda is still throwing up new stuff that we like - and I'll add some LCL pics (yes operated by the RCT tonight
Guess away, we do have a way of slipping 'unsubstantiated goodies' in as well, without getting too tied up with 100% certainty.
The only time we get upset is when, shall we say, 'conspiracy stuff' is presented as fact, and it does get short shrift if so presented, but that doesn't preclude good discussion somewhere in here, off the Main Site pages, which we like to think of as reasonably accurate, and relatively free from overly opinionated stuff.
Yes, Fox, you're right, there certainly was a base in Rhu. During the war there were flying boats based there. Not sure what type they were but it was a RAF base with airmen stationed there. I'd guess the aircraft were Sunderland Flying Boats. There were also army types stationed there just shortly after the war, around 1946-1948.
Could the site at Rhu used by the Army have been during the War years the Marine Aircrat Experimental Establishment referred to elsewhere in Secret Scotland? The Army base there (and I have no idea when it became an Army base) seemed from the road to consist primarily of a large hangar or (very large) shed.
No... the MAEE site is the Seaplane Base mentioned above.
If you look at the aerial view on its page, and then look to the west past the boats moored at the marina, you will see another bay - this is one pinpointed by the lat/lon given above by The Fox.
It's just marked as the Rhu point on the MAEE page, and you need to zoom in on it to see the detail.
The pics of of the supply craft are now one the pages, plus info about the memorial to the wrecked RAF aircraft on the island.
I think the info may be getting exhausted, I am, from trying to fit it all onto the page - I think it breaks every unwritten 'rule' for formatting a page, but the mix of portrait and landscape originals, together with the related info, makes the layout ugly and disorganised otherwise, so it will just have to be tidied up as best as can be... once it looks as if there are no more surprises to be included
Wrong place Duguld, the Seaplane Base was a bit further east, and the site still survives today, operated by HMNB Clyde - Faslane. Check the Main Site contents for details.
Ach, i always thought that if one walked for five minutes out of Helensburgh one would come to Rhu, and that was where the big seaplanes were moored in the water during the war. I think my problem is that i have the right seaplane base but the wrong village. Last time I was in Rhu, about 1998, I tried to buy a picture post-card and there wasn't one available anywhere... wonder if this had to do with security.
'Faslane" to me, was where they broke up the old Aquitania.
I doubt if security had anything to do with the lack of a postcard, even back in 1998 ordinary people had things called 'cameras'
As a 'local', I would say that Rhu isn't rated as a tourist spot, although there are a few spots of historic interest (Henry Bell is buried there - provided my memory is working, I haven't checked). With postcards being a commercial venture, doubt any printer would bother. That said, I think sunny Helensburgh would have been the place to get one, assuming you literally meant you tried to buy one in Rhu itself.
We have tried to dig up enough info about the the breakers, Metal Industries at Faslane, but there's precious little material online, so there are only a few brief references in the Main Site so far Back to St Kilda...
It took four days, but I finally managed to find the information about the final failure of the community that I knew existed, but couldn't remember the full detail of, having only come across it once, when it was first publicised a few years ago. The research is therefore relatively new, but strangely, although it would only take a few minutes to update all the popular web sites that provide information, and in some cases very detailed information, about the island, no-one seems to have bothered.
Guess we're different here, and the relevant findings have been inserted into our St Kilda page.
Briefly, while there can be little doubt that the encroachment of the modern world, tourism, money, changing economic and industrial environments, illness, and all the other causes currently making up the standard list of reasons would be enough to explain the demise, recent research has revealed that there was a much more dangerous, yet invisible, threat to the community's existence, and which would eventually have led to its end.
Thanks to their lifetime of sustenance on a seabird based diet, the local custom of eating and composting seabird waste, they were living on top of a build up of significant levels of contaminants such as lead, zinc and arsenic in the soil. Today, such land would be barred from development, and were homes have been built, the residents are moved out - and go look for someone to sue!
Rhu was active when I was at faslane and operating two LSL and to be honest I can think of nothing else they would be there for but to supply Kilda. The army base on benbecula out here on the islands is only 40 k from Kilda and there was a very large military presences, however there are not the port facilities on the West side of the islands to handle much shipping and with the sort of sea swell which constantly hits the west Rhu would be the best place for supplies to come from..... having typed this I am sure I remember that RHU did supply Kilda.
It certainly makes sense, since it would be as easy to send supplies to St Kilda as to Benbecula or the Uists, and there would be little point in stopping there en route to St Kilda (except for a rest).
Come to think of it, that's what our driver did when doing the delivery run to/from the range control. He even managed to get a bed there provided there was one going spare overnight.
With the Rhu info added, maybe somebody else that was involved will spot it and add something one day.
This was said to be a rival to the stories of Sherlock Holmes, but I think that's a bit too enthusiastic, as I keep dropping off while listening... (which should not be misconstrued as negative criticism of the story, just me).
The Mystery of a Hansom Cab is a ripping murder mystery novel was written in Melbourne in the 1880's by Fergus Hume and contains many descriptions of Melbourne life at that time.
The story starts next to the Burke & Wills statue outside the Scots Church. (The statue has since been shifted a number of times and is currently on the corner of Collins & Swanston Streets.) Two men get into a hansom cab and the driver takes them along St Kilda Road. One alights at Domain Road while the other continues through to St Kilda. On arrival, the driver finds the second passenger dead.
While I didn't notice it during earlier listening sessions, this time round I notice every mention of St Kilda made by the writer, and a number of streets in the are, which seems to much more the heart of the action, rather than Melbourne as noted in the quote above.
It's interesting to note that the Melbourne St Kilda was only named about 45 years before the story was written.
If I remember right St. Kilda is a suburb of Melbourne (which in turn is the capital of Greece - or so they say!) there is a an Aussie rules fitba' club called St. Kilda. Assume somebody of the Scots establishment in Melbourne which almost ruled the state of Victoria on and off in the 19th. century had an interest or family connection to the islands and used their influence to perpetuate the name doonunda
I don't like to sound too grumpy, but if you read "our" page about St Kilda, you'd find out all you needed to know, and how it got its name, and that there's no full stop in it, and that the St isn't an abbreviation for Saint, and....
And it probably goes without saying (I hope) that there's no mention of the football connection (even if the team's site did provide some of the history).
Really, we have nearly 600 pages of goodies there now, and it is worth having a search for the lesser knows things
I remember - a few years ago now - reading about the history of the community on St Kilda and the minister who kept them in church preaching fire & brimstone for up to 7 hours on a Sunday. The fulmar (a sea bird) seemed to be the core of the islander's diet. One thing for sure is that the men were very brave and skilfull at going down the cliffs.
I only spotted the BBC's new series, Britain's Lost World, shortly before it was due to air at 21:00 tonight, or I'd have mentioned it earlier, as it was billed as:
1/3. Historian Dan Snow, naturalist Steve Backshall and wildlife enthusiast Kate Humble set out to solve the mysteries of St Kilda, the only British World Heritage Site nominated for both its extraordinary history and its wildlife. Home to seabirds and seals, the islands are a place of mystery. Until just eighty years ago, St Kilda was inhabited, and those people lived in an extraordinary way. When they suddenly abandoned their homes, they left behind a place full of secrets. Who were the strange and remarkable St Kildans? Why did they leave? And can St Kilda's amazing wildlife survive in the modern world?
In this first programme, Steve collects food the St Kildan way - by abseiling down a 400 foot cliff; Kate finds out how this season's baby puffins are getting on; and Dan discovers the islands' Viking history. But when Steve and Dan set out to row to the island of Boreray, plans go awry
It was a bit irritating as the programme started, with repeated references to "The mystery of why the St Kildans left" - it's not a mystery, and never was, not even the day the islanders left.
Facts appeared to go out the window when they spotted the six modern refurbishment cottages, and they asserted that one of the problems was the zinc roofs and glass windows which wouldn't have lasted or been repairable when damages, as the material was not locally available. Wonder who let them away with that one? The roofs in question are in fact only a few years old - the real roofs on the buildings would have been natural, made of wood covered with layers of heather turfs, then thatched and held down by a net weighted with stones.
Seeing the weather change that brought the Coastguard in to extract one of the team was a good example of the conditions endured there.
The six hour trip in an open boat was better than slipping over in a helicopter or cruiser, and was accompanied by Kate Humble losing her breakfast.
I mentioned the Coastguard safety callout in light of the weather change from sun to showers, which the islanders would have had to contend with, and while the trip in rowing boat declined into farce, it did also illustrate how vital a good boat was, as their example fell apart in little more than calm seas.
I was more than impressed by the soil analysis, confirming the toxin build-up in the land, and carried out in a few seconds by a hand-held gizmo stuck in a hole in the ground.
I caught the latter half of this, the soil analysis and the stretching bit on the rock. St Kilda fascinates me but I could never go there, the though of that 1,000 ft. sheer drop off the cliff at what appears to be the top of a montain scares me to death. I read a couple of histories of the place a few years ago and so have a basic understanding of its culture and background. The BBC programme was a TV attempt to play up to the title some dude dreamed up, no worries about that because if any place in the British Isles could be cast as 'Lost Britain' it would be St Kilda.
I also notice they never mentioned the base - and the telecomms tower so visible in the footage.
For those not up to speed, the base used to allow civilian visitors but this ended with the so-called terrorist hype, and visitors are discouraged. They used to be able to use the facilities - the Puff Inn - but that ended recently, and the only circumstances where civilians will be entertained will be a medical emergency.
QinetiQ are credited on the programme, but the MoD might have asked the programme not to include the camp or radar stations. We'll see in the later content.
If you read our small print you will find a reference to the warden's warning to visitors, alerting them to the dangers of the cliffs and not to wear waterproof trousers. If you trip and fall wearing these on the steep, wet, grassy slopes, then your next stop will be the sea, after you have gone shooting over the 400 metre cliff edge.
Some place, but you have to wonder about its viability and the mental approach of those who lived there. I refer not to any particular social aspect, merely the fact that just to survive there you would have to spend most of your waking hours organising food, either to eat right away, or to store for consumption in winter.
This, as noted earlier, was one of the ultimate problems, when the church got its claws on the islanders and had them in church when they should have been working in the fields, so reducing their already depleted food stocks even further.
I don't remember this, but it seems a fishing boat ran aground on Hirta back in February, and is in the news again as plans are made to decide its fate.
There were worries that it may have brought rats to the island, which could have been a major problem, but it looks as if there were none.
You almost wonder how they managed to hit the island, in the middle of nowhere.
Engine failure during a storm which blew it onto rocks as far as I remember. The island was monitored for months by SNH ( I think ) but no traces of rats were found. This despite fishermen saying fishing boats do not attract rats in any case so was probably another waste of public money. It was a Spanish boat.
To say that the Rhu base operated from a beach is incorrect as it was a pukka base witha large storage warehouse slipway and jetty. This facility is now the Press Center for HMNB Faslane according to a notice on the gates.
The item follows on from the LCL stories, and I'm pretty sure they'll have operated their runs from the beach rather than the stores, but mentioning the buildings would do no harm.
What we probably want it some meat on the Rhu facility history, and its own page to refer to.
The Press Centre story is unrelated to the St Kilda story, and is already included in the HMNB Clyde naval base page, which it relates to.
I see St Kilda is back in the news again today (the Scottish Daily Express and the Daily Record) with an article asking for volunteers to sew cotton bags to help save baby puffins. Apparently every year loads of Pufflings (baby puffins) are disorientated by the lights of the defence installation and wander inland instead of towards the water. They need to be rounded up and the bags are used to transport therm safely.
I have to say I had to check that it was not the 1st of April
The Daily Record I can understand, but I thought the Daily Express had a bit more integrity left.
Certainly in the past, the base commander and the NTS worked closely together, and the light at the base were turned off during the breeding season to prevent the very disorientation these two esteemed pillars of truth and virtue are claiming.
Somebody has to be wrong, or once again, somebody's found a cheap way to sell a few more papers.
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