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Dugald
March 17, 2008, 7:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Mystery
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A BBC News' report this morning informed us that the Australian search-team looking for the wreck of HMAS Sydney,had located the the wreck of the German armed merchant cruiser, the ship which sank the Sydney in November 1941. The Australian ship was the biggest in the Australian navy and went down with all 645 crew members. The German ship, the Kormoran, disguised as a Dutch merchant vessel, was also sunk in the engagement, but 307 of her crew of 397 were saved and finished up as POW's in Australia.

The sinking of the Sydney and such a loss of life probably ranks as Australia's worst and most costly single action during the war. It is hoped that the finding of the Kormoran will help the Finding Sydney Foundation find the location of the Sydney's wreck.
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The Fox
March 17, 2008, 7:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Secret
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Christmas before last I received a book about the sinking of the Sydney.  The research indicated that she was in fact sunk by a Japanese submarine which is unexpected as Japan and OZ were not at war at that time.  Evidence included the fact that a boat load of germans from the armed raider were picked up on the shore and there were japanese milk bottles aboard.
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Apollo
March 17, 2008, 9:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Try this one, which discounts the Japanese theory back in 1998:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/despatches/70978.stm

Preceded by investigation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/despatches/37184.stm

From The People's War

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/79/a4220579.shtml

There was also the possibility of danger of attack by a German surface Raider, although at that time there were no reports of any operating in the Indian Ocean since HMAS Sydney had destroyed Kormoran in 19th November 1941 and had in turn been sunk by her. 315 of the Kormoran’s crew including her captain Detmers made it safely to Western Australia; but from the Sydney however, tragically there were no survivors, a loss which all in Australia grieved.

See also the Wikipedia entry, which list the discovery of Sydney on March 17, 2008, one day after the Kormoran discovery.
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Dugald
March 18, 2008, 1:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Mystery
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Thanks to your mention of the Sydney having been found Apollo, I heard the Australian Prime Minister announce today that the wreck of HMAS Sydney had been found, and it has been declared to be a war grave, in accordance with which, he declared "...a provisional ban on anyone touching the sunken vessel". Mr. Rudd stated further, that the Sydney was a tomb and should never be raised. This is good news for the many  relatives and friends of the 645 men who lost their lives in the sinking of this warship.

It seems the hull of the sunken ship is all in one piece. I find this surprising in view of the fact that there were no survivors of the disaster. It had been thought that the lack of survivors suggested that the ship had blown up, giving the crew no chance to escape... much like the sinking of the Hood.

The only item on the newscast which I thought to be rather a cheap shot, was a comment made by HMAS Sydney Association President John Atkins who said, with respect to what is known of the action in which the Sydney went down that:

"We have only got witness reports from the German crews, which people take with a grain of salt,".

I certainly would not take what the German crew members reported with a grain of salt!


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The Fox
March 18, 2008, 7:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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From the book I referred to it appears that the Ozzies did not handle the German prisoners very professionally.  Much collusion was allowed to take place before they were debriefed.
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Dugald
March 18, 2008, 9:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Mystery
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Yes, perhaps that would explain the attitude of this fellow Aiken. the behaviour of German naval prisoners were I thing generally about as good as our own. i think for example of the attitude taken by the sailors of the Graf Spey. who were not at all reluctant to praise the British sailors for their efforts, and their treatment of the British Merchant Marine prisoners was apparently very good.
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