I have just noticed on the Ordnance Survey mappping that just to the NE of Ardlui there are some "Pillars".  Do you think this could be another Home Guard defensive position like the Rest?  It would be hard to get to because they are on the other side of the river.

Tried stabbing pins in the map, but without co-ordinates pillars are too small to hit by chance, so I haven't a clue on this one

Go on to the OS getamap site and choose Ardlui.  The pillars are to the NE of the hotel, on the other side of the river, just above the 16 grid line.   They are only shown on the largest scale map.

It would seem to be a reasonable place for a stop line defence psosition as they could not be attacked by infantry because of the river.

I'd never have found that...

It's across the loch though , not a river - I was searching on the stream that runs into the loch past the hotel.

No idea what kind of pillars they are, they don't appear in large scale mapping either, so I couldn't see them when zoomed in close to look for detail.

Think you can discount any sort of stop line or defences, whatever they are, they're on a deserted loch shore, opposite side from any road or routes anywhere, and anyone landing there (parachuted onto an inland loch?) would be blocked by the hills and bens anyway. You'd need a boat to get the defenders there first, let alone the hostiles.

As far as I can tell, they don't correspond to any sort of benchmarks or trig points either, and nothing seems to come up on any sites that report 'interesting' features, so barring a very long walk (or a jaunt on the ferry to cross the loch), I reckon the pillars remain a mystery - unless someone else knows better(think)

Lets not forget that the spigot mortar bases at Greenhill are shown as pillars on the same scale of mapping.  I was casting about to see if there was another Rest and Be Thankful site near the top of Glen Falloch.

Indeed, hence my hint about the 'pillars' - it's a pity that OS uses such bland generalities when they come across features to be noted, which are unknownm rather than something which might even just be a touch more descriptive. A bit like cliffs - do the mean like Dover, or St Andrews

Still seems unlikely to be strategic though, as there's simply no way to deploy troops to man it if it was. It's a deserted piece of land with no easy access to get men, supplies, or re-supplies to, doesn't protect or defend anything, and can only be accessed by boat. One man with a machine-gun could keep men there pinned down with no trouble. In fact, an invader would probably have something better, and wipe the spot out easily, as they would probably be properly equipped paratroopers, not Home Guard. Given the distance, and the accuracy and reliability of our old pal, the Spigot Mortar, it would be of little use to block the road on the Ardlui side, and would run out of shells anyway, with no chance of resupply.

We need a local

As you noted before it would be quite an expedition!

I happened to be using the Glossary for OS maps last night, and took the opportunity to look up 'Pillars'...

It only has one meaning given, and that's as triangulation pillars.

I reckon that means they can be anything, since the mortar bases, and even the big round thing along from Ardeer, are all referred to simply as 'Pillars' on the map. The surveyor must just assign the generic description to the feature if it exists, and they clearly don't cross-match them to existing trig points or benchmarks, as so many are obsolete and abandoned.

Two alternatives for the expedition - middle of winter and good binoculars or scope in the hope that there's no greenery left, or nice summer away day, and get the ferry across the loch and go for a wee walk

I know that part of the lochside road Fox, and I don't ever recall seeing a Home Guard post around there. I agree with Apollo regarding the disadvantages of locating defensive works on the other side of the water at the foot of a pretty rough hiiside.

I don't recall ever seeing a H.G. post at the top of Glen Falloch either, but I do recall seeing members of the H.G. on exercise right in Crianlarich at the cross-road.

Would that have been on or near the road to the station, Crianlarich?

Just had a canter round Old Maps to see if there was ever a bridge there but the answer is no ( upto 1923 ).  All maps show there being a ferry crossing at that point so I am still non the wiser.  I think you are right Apollo, the next move has to be a winter visit with the spotting scope and tripod.  It will give me a chance to see if any of the Inverarnan Canal remains can still be identified.

"Would that have been on or near the road to the station, Crianlarich?"

Any place in Crianlarich is on or near the road to the station! It was right beside the hotel at the south-west corner of the intersection of the two main roads. We were on bikes heading for Dalmally and they just cheered us through(not "jeered", "cheered"!).

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?.....;iwloc=addr&om=1

You've been away too long

The station isn't on the road to Dalmally, it's on the south of the 'T' at the junction and the hotel. The hotel's still there, on the corner, and doing a roaring trade with coaches - when I stop off at the toilet across the road, it's always packed (hotel, not toilet!) I travelled the route too many times a few years back trying to track down some WWII remains at Dalmally itself, next to road junction there, at the golf course. Never found them (didn't expect to as the were reported to be nothing but a few bricks in a field), but I did trawl about the woods just off the road and came up with a set of concrete and brick bases, some quite large, lost in the undergrowth. I suppose it's daft to to say they had the feel of something military with no other evidence, but then again, what else would have been built in such an obscure place, as the bases clearly aren't the remains of something like a domestic house?

It's not exactly next to the station, but, yes, Crianlarich is the site of one of my favoured ROC nuclear monitoring posts, a hundred yards or so on the left as you approach Crianlarich and the station, and all but invisible unless you know where it is, even though it's in plain sight.

It's great to see a train crossing on that elevated track over the village, as it arrives at the station, and even though I'm not a steam fan as such, reckon it would have looked even better with a steam engine puffing along it. I've got some old B&W lodged away in book somewhere.

You've been away too long

That may well be true, but it's got nowt to do with me seeing the H.G. in front of the hotel at the crossroads in Crianlarich. The "it" referred to in my last post  is with reference to the HG post that i saw, not the railway station (yes. I see I didn't word my sentence correctly). All I said about the railway station was that any place in Crianlarich is near the station. (Incidentally i once spent a Saturday evening in the home of the station master... but he wasn't there.)

Ah... Got "it"  

I'll try and be more alert next time.

Was the H.G. post a tangible thing, or just a bunch of guys in a clump?

Quoted from Apollo

Ah... Got "it"  
Was the H.G. post a tangible thing, or just a bunch of guys in a clump?

Oh yes, it was tangible. It was my experience that the HG tended to take their job seriously, and could be overly conscientious at times, especially wi' Glesga keelies. They could have been on manouvers along with army regulars; there were quite a few of them but their behaviour was as it should have been... polite.

Canada we have a problem!  Two nations divided by a single language?

I think the question Apollo is asking is "Did the Home Guard post have any physical presence i.e any building or other structure?"

Yes Fox, thank you, i know what was meant now... I'm a ding dong!
No Apollo, there was no tangible post of any kind. just a 'clump' of uniformed humanity.

Thanks guys.

I think you're both right of course, as the question wording was a bit too fancy.

It was just that the mention of a 'post' had flashed up a vision of the HG on exercises with sandbags, a hut, and a swinging barrier across the road.

DAFT, I know, but once it had appeared in my mind, I couldn't shake it.

I took a trip to Ardlui this afternoon.  I didn't find what I hoped to but I did find two large piers apparently from an old bridge or for an old bridge.  Built of stone there is one each side of the water.  There are several inexplicable things about this.

1)  19th and early 20th century maps show no signs of a bridge and indicate the existence of a ferry crossing at this point.

2)  The water is quite wide so how  18th century engineers proposed to span this is not clear.  It is possible that there was another pier in the centre ( or more than one ) which was removed when the river was canalised up to Inverarnan.  It must have been a busy route to warrant such a structure.. Did it ever get built?

The area seems to be known as MacGregor's Crossing now and is behind a presently closed hotel.  If I had realised it was closed I could have saved myself a mile or so walk across very wet countryside including being up to my knees in rather cold water.  Part of the fun I suppose.

I don't think there can be any doubt that these were the supports for the pier that served the ferry. This is the 1922 map, the earlier versions show it too, but no so clear:



Unfortunately, the passage of time has had less effect on the stone parts, and whatever wooden parts there were have been lost, so unless someone can come up with an old pic, it's all down too imagination.

I tried a quick search, but the existence of the modern day ferry and the desire to net tourists and part them from their cash means there little chance of finding references to the old ferry online, with any ease at least.

However...

With the benefit of having seen things first hand, maybe some of the pics from the local heritage site may be relevant, and not only show the more common item to the south (which I almost missed on the map, and is clearly marked Jetty)?

http://www.arrocharheritage.com/ArrocharHeritageTrail_Ardlui_Photos.htm

Great site, I'll have a more indepth look at it later wen I have more time.

The 1905 pic seems to show the west pillar although the pic is very blurred.

I cannot see these pillars as bases for piers as they were about 10 feet above the waterlevel yesterday and as a result of the heavy over night rain the water level was several feet above normal level.  At one point the lochside path was more than a foot under water!  Any boats using these as  piers would have to be quite high. The loch is more than 50metres wide at this point so a difficult span in 17th/18th century terms and too short for a big ferry to cross.  Another enigma?

I think you're spot on about the height of these pillars, AND provided the reason for their being, in terms of height.

Given that we're probably in the region of Max Water Level about now, and that data for this area suggest a summer/winter variation of 8 m, then I guess it would make sense to build the stone pier at the max height, and then hang some sort of wooden staging off it to allow the ferry passengers to board without being athletes, and presumably shift livestock too, this being the days before floating docks and swinging linkspans. It may have been nothing more than a ladder to let them reach the boat at whatever height it happened to be.

Presumably it also helped them keep their feet dry as the rising waters ate into the shore.

The ferry could have been little more than a glorified rowing boat. There were quite a few surviving when Tom Weir made his programmes, summoning the boatman with a shout or a whistle, or raising a flag to let him know there was a fare waiting.

Just a bit reasoned guesswork of course, like all these oddities, it would be nice if a painting or pic ever turned up.

Given they are now 3 metres above the water level, at the lowest they would be 11 metres .  That would neeed some ladder particularly as the ground under the present water level shelves.